This week we’re taking a break from our usual tips on observations of patterns in journalism writing. Soon it will be time for college student readers of this blog to research and apply for next summer's internships. Deadlines are typically in January, February or March, and the week of downtime between Christmas and New Year's is a good time to get started. So for this week's post we interviewed an internship veteran to help students prepare for this process.
Chloe Daley is a 22-year-old Sacramento State University senior who has landed five journalism internships, including W magazine in New York, Sactown magazine in Sacramento, and 7x7 magazine in San Francisco.
Daley has interviewed everyone from Google executives to mermaids. She has attended club-opening parties and eaten pickled pigs feet for taste reviews. In the Big Apple this past summer, her window-side desk on the 19th-floor of a Condé Naste building near Times Square overlooked the New York City skyline.
She graciously granted an interview when we caught up with her last month in her hometown of Roseville, California. She offered tips to students and recent grads on landing internships, and more importantly, what to do once you’re in the door. She also discussed things you might not expect to encounter upon landing a cool spot in a big city.
Interview excerpts:
Journalism Patterns: Did you ever think you’d get the W internship?
Chloe Daley: Never in a million years. I mean, I’m a nobody from Sacramento, why would they pick me? The only reason I got the interview, I think, was because I interned in San Francisco. And that’s key, you have to keep building on your internships.
One sidenote: I think most people don’t apply for enough internships. When I applied for New York, I applied for probably close to 30 internships over a month. I was actually still interviewing with people after I got my internship just to practice my phone interviews. I got W and that was exciting.
Why should someone want to be an intern?
I think that during college there is only so much you can learn from your professors, and you need the real work experience of how to deal with people, how to take your skills into the working environment. It’s the only place you’ll get that type of experience. You make really great connections with people, you get to learn different styles, whether it’s newspapers or magazine.
What have you learned?
Definitely take initiative. That’s the number one thing I’ve learned.
Also, I can’t stress enough to be on time. I’ve seen some interns really start off on the wrong foot [by] being late with deadlines and in person.
Another thing, get over your fear of talking on the phone. Just pick up the phone and start calling people. Learn to talk.
Overall, though, you definitely learn how to work with different types of people. I think it prepares you for the work environment wherever you go. You understand what people expect of you, too.
What goals did you take to your internships?
Every internship I’ve tried to set personal goals for myself. Let’s say, “I want to pitch a certain amount of story ideas.” Or “I want to write for a certain section, how am I going to get there, what research do I need to do?”
I knew when I started that I wanted to do magazines. I’ve learned a lot at each internship and about each section, whether it was fact checker or writing their events playlist. I’ve done everything from mundane Excel spreadsheets to interviewing people at club openings. Oh, and I interviewed a mermaid once.
A mermaid.
Yea, they swim in a tank in a club in Sacramento.
Thanks for sharing that. How did you grow at some of your internships?
One of them was the first time I’d been to a publication that ran on a monthly cycle. It was a lot of pressure, and you learn to get things done quickly.
At another one I was basically a full-time staffer. They made you do a lot and really push you with workload during the day. It wasn’t like, “Oh, here are two tasks you can do.” It was more of a reporter position.
What do editors expect of you?
Really to be very detail-oriented, to be a go-getter. Really show that you are so enthusiastic about whatever publication you’re working at. That was probably one of the most key things that I pushed myself was to always be pitching story ideas with different things that I could do for the publication. Keep up Google alerts, getting your info tailor-related for what you’re working on.
When I was in New York I pitched a lot of story ideas to my editor. Half of them were things that were already covered by other people. You had to understand the style of the magazine and you couldn’t step on anyone’s toes. I only ended up publishing one thing, but she said, “It’s been ages since an intern pitched anything to us. I’m so glad you want to write for us.” So it’s not about just doing what they say but really pushing yourself at every internship.
You mentioned detail-oriented. To what extent are you talking?
When I worked at Sactown [magazine] we would fact check [each] issue according to how national magazines do it – it’s called local, final, super final, and close. Four steps you have to do with the red pen and the pencil. You’re crossing out each letter – it’s copy editing but on the most minute level. Every single adjective has to be fact checked, basically. You have to call people and ask the strangest questions and people can sometimes give you attitude. For the first two months I did it I was so uncomfortable. We did, say, a sandwich feature and there were 20 sandwiches, and I had to call each place and ask “OK, so is this spinach, tomato, lemon aioli? Or tomato, pesto, spinach aioli?” And they’d be like, “Really, does this matter?” And I’d say “Yes.”
What’s the best thing about being an intern?
That you’re still learning, that you don’t have to get all [scared] when the sky falls. It’s not your fault, really. …You get to do a lot of fun things, too. They’ll throw things your way and you can try a lot of things and do a lot. You’re not locked into being the copyeditor or the fact checker. You can go from department to department, which I did a lot. You would help Fed-Ex some stuff one day, another day you’re helping people who manage the office, the next day you’re interviewing someone from Google.
Leading question: just how cool was it living in New York City for a summer?
Ha ha, that is such a leading question. It was the best summer of my life, honestly. The internship wasn’t necessarily the best internship I’ve ever had. It was probably my third favorite. But the living experience was the best. Just being at that pace and meeting so many creative people, that was huge. Everyone has a side project they’re working on. They have their day job, but what they’re really passionate about is what they do at night. I volunteered for this project called Longshot magazine. It’s a 48-hour collaborative project, pretty much everyone from writers and designers, photographers … there were a lot of people from the Atlantic and Wired. So I got to hang out in SoHo and help people around that office and choose some of the pieces that would go into the magazine.
What were some of the challenges you hadn’t expected about living in a big city on your own?
I didn’t face too many challenges, I was prepared for a lot of it. It’s very expensive in New York, my goodness. Finding a place [to live] is very hard. Harder than you think.
Loneliness is definitely something, too, a factor for sure. A friend came and lived with me for two months so that eliminated the loneliness. She stayed, she’s actually still there. I found a church and I got connected. I started going to one of the small groups and started hanging out with people so that was great. That’s kind of how I met people mostly.
What advice do you have for someone about to become an intern? What should they try to learn?
I think they first of all should understand how the full publication works. Every facet, from the fact checkers to the receptionist job. I think you should have an understanding of how the whole finished product comes out. Once you understand that, you have an understanding of what you want to go into and focus on. I see a lot of people – mainly broadcast majors – who complain that they get stuck in a little room and they don’t know what else is going on. I think part of the experience is knowing what the whole industry is about. Also, I think once you get in there you should show initiative in whatever task they give you, because once you prove yourself with something really small, they’ll give you something bigger. That’s how it works. I’ve definitely done the grunge tasks and menial stuff.
Most interesting thing that happened?
This was actually very hard, but one of the exciting pieces I got to write, I interviewed the creative tech at Google. Before I interviewed him it took me two weeks to figure out what his job description is. Our editor was like “I don’t even know what this guy does. This is so confusing.” It turns out he’s an artist, but he’s also a math wiz. He does visual displays. He’s even been in the [Museum of Modern Art].
Off-beat stuff?
I once had to go buy pickled pig feet. We did a “best of the city” issue and one of our writers picked these. I had to go to this restaurant – they didn’t speak English – and order the thing and then fact-check all the information with them. It was nerve-wracking but I got it done. I took it back to the office and made everyone eat it with me.
Shameless promotion: of the postings on this blog, why did you say the October 6 posting on Writing About Other People was your favorite?
You have to write about other people. That’s one of the reasons I enjoy journalism. I think even if I got out of it I would want to be doing something that is asking people about their lives and understanding how they think and what motivates them. It’s the whole human interest level of journalism, that’s what I’m passionate about. I think that’s what people want to read. You can write the same old story a million times, but it’s the people who make it what it really is.
Any other advice for someone going to an internship?
As far as what to do when you’re there, make yourself indispensable. Meet everyone in the room, definitely. I think people don’t – especially young kids – we don’t seem to be able to just introduce ourselves to people. These people don’t have time for you, you’re an intern. So introduce yourself, make yourself memorable.
New York is a little bit different. It was a big corporation and it was etiquette you didn’t talk to people in other departments. But I think in city publications or a newspaper, you need to meet everyone. You never know when someone might need something and you can say “I can do that for you, I’m not doing anything now.” I’ve ended up doing jobs for people who weren’t even in my department. You have to be willing to do anything.
And I think it’s really important to keep good ties with everyone at your internship. Definitely meet everyone and build connections.
Another thing is before you ask a question – this sounds dumb, but really – Google it. Don’t waste people’s time. Both when you’re interviewing people and especially in the office. When you get to a publication and there’s so much you have to learn about style and format and protocol, there’s so much you can learn by just looking at the website or checking the publication itself. I’ve listened to other interns who have come in after me and I’m thinking, “Oh please don’t ask that question, the editor is going to be so ticked off.” So I’ve eliminated that by just looking things up online.
Role reversal: What makes a good journalism mentor?
Someone who checks in with you at the beginning and the end. I feel like some editors will give you something but will never ask how you’re doing. They just ask “where is it?” They just expect it. What helps is someone who just takes a little time to talk to you about what you’re interested in. Constructive feedback is the most important thing. If you don’t get feedback you don’t grow.
Someone who doesn’t say, “Oh, just have the intern do it.” It has to go both ways, the intern has to care first, otherwise they don’t get the time of day. But if the intern is dedicated you should show your appreciation by taking the time. Maybe take them to coffee and ask them what they want to do. Just little gestures that mean a lot to people who may be working for free.
I don’t know that much about fashion. What kind of a wardrobe does a prospective intern need to build in order to work at a place such as W magazine?
I felt terrified showing up there, to be honest. There are legends there. The building is The Devil Wears Prada. But it was a pretty causal office. During fashion week everyone ups the ante, and you see them all over the fashion blogs. There are only a few fashion editors who really go over the top. But the fashion interns, they don’t have any money, so they’re just trying to be creative. They’re really cute, but it’s not like everyone’s wearing Alexander Wang.
Million-dollar question: what’s your plan after graduation?
Saving money and moving back to New York. I have a lot of things in the fire now. I might want to go teach English abroad. Ha, I’ve even applied for some other internships.
